Tuesday, February 14, 2012

The Fifth Child

Choose One Topic:
#1 - Is David too controlling of his relationships, especially with Harriet?
#2 - How do you think Ben's relationship with his parents will turn out in the future?

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5 comments:

Annie Paslaski said...

David and Harriet's relationship, has always struck me as a weird one. Not because they are known for being social outcasts as we learn in the beginning of the novel at the Christmas party, but more because of the terms of the relationship. Harriet was never the girl to go out and meet guys or try to be in any type of relationship, she was a prude. David in contrast was not the same, he was not a virgin like Harriet, he has been with other women before he met Harriet. In my opinion because David had been in other relationships, he had an easy time manipulating Harriet. I do not think their relationship would of escalated into what it turned into as quickly , if Harriet had also had serious relationships before David came around. Since David was Harriets first love, she was head over heels for him this allowed him to take control and manipulate her. Whether David is too controlling, I'd say yes. I think this is partly because of the position Harriet allowed him to gain in the relationship.
When the relationship started escalating to them getting married and starting a family, Harriet allowed David to take all reins and control each aspect of the relationship. David decided forcefully when they'd have kids. He was the one who created a situation where they were having many children in a short amount of time, it was not in anyway Harriet's decision. Even though Harriet wanted to have a big family, she would of spaced out the birth of each child, if David gave her the option to. David takes advantage of his relationship with Harriet a naive women, and is very controlling of her and every decision in the relationship.
David's character I feel also plays into how controlling he is of Harriet. When they first move into the house Lessing uses language to who how demanding and controlling of Harriet. On page 10 Lessing takes about how when they first made love, how Harriet almost wanted to cry out "No,stop! What are we doing?" but that David made her accept him. At the bottom of page 10 it also says how "she felt as if she did not know him." "he gripped her upper arm with a hand she had not believed could be so strong, insistent. This grip said, Be quiet." These quotes show how David was controlling and took advantage of Harriet. It also shows how Harriet was obedient to David, she does not speak up for herself in regards to her relationship with David.
David is very controlling of Harriet, and takes control of her too much. He doesn't not treat Harriet with very much respect and we see this with evidence from the text. There relationship is not very strong , I feel Harriet is clueless to how she should be treated by David. He does not respect her, and is much to controlling of every decision made throughout the novel so far.

adrick barreto said...

#2 - How do you think Ben's relationship with his parents will turn out in the future?

Ben's relationship with his mother and father is far from what one would call a healthy parent-child relationship, neither of them feel at ease with their new baby boy. The fact that neither of them see their child as a normal baby will have a negative influence on their parent-child relationship. This wll cause Ben and his parents to be distant from one another.

When Ben was inside Harriet's womb she felt that it was a monster, and even wanted it to be taken out when she was only 8 months pregnant! (pg. 47). This shows that she does not feel that her baby is her baby. Further proof of this is provided after she gave birth to Ben and gazed upon him. She asked herself while looking upon him what the mother would look like, "the one who would welcome this-alien."(pg. 50). This, coupled with her previous comparisons of him with some sort of strange beast shows us that she has already dissasociated herself with her child which will lay the groundwork for a distant mother-son relationship in the future.

Ben's father was not much closer to Ben than his wife, he was mostly away at his job so that he could support the family, but when he was at home, he barely ever held, or even touched Ben (pg.56). To add to that both he and Harriet had felt that Ben had "invaded their ordinaryness" and had upset the balance of things because they, having a normal family had no defences against someone like Ben (pg. 58).

Both Harriet and David see Ben as an outsider and both of them put as much distance between themselves and Ben because he is not like all the other children they have had, thus disassociating themselves from him.

jessica ribet said...

David seems to be very overwhelmed and stressed out because he has so many kids. Now that he has Ben, who causes his family, especially his wife, difficulty is very hard for him. In this case, not being controlling would be very difficult for any father. When one has so many kids, especially a problem child, it must be very difficult. When Harriet is pregnant, David does not seem to over-bare Harriet. However, once the baby was born, he was very embarrassed by him and angry with how he acted. For example, Dorris Lessing writes, "David was silent: it was this anger, this bitterness in her that he could not handle." (pg 51) This quote does prove that David is a very controlling person over all. He is so upset that this baby is so crazy and that he cannot control how the baby acted. By saying he could handle it, makes one think that he was upset that he could not control Ben. 
          Although David seems to be controlling of his children he is also very controlling of Harriet. Ever since Harriet was pregnant with Ben, she was always in a lot of pain and hard to handle. This is when their relationship started to take a turn. This was not normal for David and it seems that he is losing interest in Harriet. Their relationship was taking a turn because she was uncontrollable. Since she was in so much pain, he could not control her anymore. Also, since the pregnancy caused her so much pain and agony, she was not herself and her kids and husband were afraid of her and did not think that she was herself either. She was not the wife/ mom they thought she was. 

Anne Crowe said...

David has always known exactly what he wanted in life. On page 6, Doris Lessing discusses David’s desires for the future, “He had grown up with a fierce, private demand for his future: for his own children, it would all be different. He knew what he wanted, and the kind of woman he needed.” Because David is passionate about fulfilling his life goals, he becomes an extremely controlling person. David is far too controlling in his relationship with Harriet. “But she was overwhelmed with his purpose-yes, that was it, he was making love with a deliberate, concentrated intensity, looking into her eyes, that made her accept him, his taking possession of the future in her.” (page 9) David “made her” accept him, showing his controlling nature. If anybody truly loves someone, they are not going to “make” somebody want to make love to them and and take possession of their loved one’s future. Somebody so willing to take advantage of their significant other to create the future he has always yearned for clearly only cares about themselves.
On page 10, Harriet notices how controlling David really is. “She felt she did not know him....but his arm tightened around her and he gripped her upper arm with a hand she had not believed could be so strong, insistent. This grip said, Be quiet.” David’s lack of compassion for Harriet shows his underlying, egotistical quality. David has no problem emotionally hurting his lover to reach his goals; he will control as much as he possibly can in order to achieve his desires. David’s vision for his future has overshadowed and lead to his possessive nature in his relationship with Harriet.

M. Fritsch said...

It is hard to say how Ben's relationship with his parents will be in the future. He might be able to understand his parents when they talk about him, which makes it seem that he will not like his parents because he thinks that his parents don't like him.
Another possibility for the future, is that Ben will have a better relationship with one parent than the other. The way that may go, is that he will have a better relationship with Harriet rather than David because Harriet sometimes tries to stick up for Ben. Whereas David is almost never thinking that Ben is a good kid. If David suddenly decides to change around Ben, then they might have a better relationship, but it doesn't seem like that will happen anytime soon.